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[Music]

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ufos seem to be invading both our skies

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and our news outlets like never before

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and more people are starting to look up

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and are wondering who

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or what might be out there in 2016

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ryan sprague introduced the world to

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countless ufo encounters that had never

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been made public before

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and now in the second edition of his

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book he revisits these events and

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introduces brand new ufo cases

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in somewhere in the skies a human

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approach to the ufo phenomenon

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how have these events changed the lives

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of those involved

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and what might it tell us about the

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phenomenon with in-depth follow-ups

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brand new chapters and detailed

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testimony from credible witnesses and

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insight

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from those in the psychological academic

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and scientific fields

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somewhere in the skies a human approach

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to the ufo phenomenon

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weaves together a story of stories

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attempting to get to the heart of these

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mysteries

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one experience at a time available now

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on amazon

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in both paperback and ebook to learn

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welcome to part two of our series ufos

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in 2020

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with our special guest former law

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enforcement professional

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and investigative writer tim mcmillan

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tim writes freelance currently for such

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venues as spice popular

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mechanics and the war zone and today

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we'll be covering the hotly debated

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wilson davis memo

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and just exactly what it is if it's real

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and its place in this entire off-world

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vehicles

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revelation brought forth recently in the

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new york times

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while initially very skeptical with good

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reason

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tim tells us what might have possibly

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changed his mind

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in relation to the entire wilson davis

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affair i have this nagging concern that

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lingers with me with this wilson

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documents

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eric davis isn't lying eric davis is i

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don't believe he is

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i have no problem standing on the record

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there's nothing that tells me that derek

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davis is

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a liar and that he's making this up that

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he did meet with somebody

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admittedly he'd never met thomas wilson

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before that

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they are these notes have this is

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concerned it still lingers that makes me

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wonder

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could he have been set up then tim and i

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discuss

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bob lazar after over 30 years of being

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discredited and scrutinized for his

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extraordinary claims of having worked on

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ufos near area 51 has blizzard

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finally been vindicated with all the

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recent news of ufo wreckage and

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materials in off-world vehicles and what

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if he did

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actually possess the mysterious element

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115

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as he claims supposedly he hasn't and

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my thing is that that right there is

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what vindicates pablo's our store

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you know short of them admitting yeah

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yeah we got nine name saucers

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s4 he's right that could easily

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vindicate his story

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you know if if he had that presented i'm

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certain we could find somebody

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not only would could bob lazar if he

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wanted to and that was true

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vindicate himself but but ryan he could

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actually like

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screw the government we're not worried

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about them he could prove

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that extraterrestrials that all of this

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is true single-handedly

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and um he chooses not to

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tim then gives us the inside scoop on

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his work on the history channel

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television series

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unidentified and we end with tim

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answering your

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listener questions i want to believe

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that there's something else that is

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traversing the cosmos and visiting us

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because if

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something else can do it then so can we

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and i think that'd be pretty freaking

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cool

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i'd like to do that it's an explosive

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part two

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of ufos in 2020 and trust me just when

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we thought this year gonna get any

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stranger

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we've only just begun here's part two

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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spread

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you did mention uh disinformation now

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this is something i want to

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tackle with you here um besides all of

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the

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recent new york times discussion you

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said powerful people

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admiral wilson this is something tim i'm

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not

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familiar with the

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wilson davis memo it's all the rage on

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ufo twitter and

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uh yeah man so i'm curious to to hear if

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you're willing

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to maybe maybe walk us through what this

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memo is

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and uh maybe give your thoughts on the

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whole debate behind it because

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i'm just diving in man and i don't know

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what to make of any of it

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and i'm a bad ufo researcher for that

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run while you still can ryan don't get

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it maybe it is better i didn't yeah yeah

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what do you

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think oh man okay so

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no much like yourself i didn't pay much

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attention to these a year ago when they

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leaked out and i have since found myself

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in in dealing with them because they've

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become a big deal again but the

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so the the 50 000 foot overview of these

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are these are notes

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that are supposedly authored uh by dr

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eric davis who

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was a member of bob bigelow's needs team

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uh national institute of discovery

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science back in the late 90s early 2000s

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and then later was also a contractor for

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his

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uh bigelow advanced space vigolo

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aerospace advanced space studies geez

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one of the

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just simple words man fbi is easy

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so anyway who were awarded the

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the awes app another long acronym the

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asap contract so the

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the ufo program and so you know this was

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a meeting that uh these are notes

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supposedly transcribed from a meeting

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that he

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uh you know held with a retired admiral

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thomas wilson

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who at one point in time the late 90s

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was the

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the director of the defense intelligence

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agency so

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kind of the uh the dod cia

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so the military is cia he held what's

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called the j-2 position which is the

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the intelligence advisor to the joint

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chiefs i'm chuckling because

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it's an acronym minefield um and

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uh he held these positions it was pretty

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high-level position and

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this meeting was supposedly occurred in

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2001 or two

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i don't have in front of me but around

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that time frame right after he retired

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uh from the military and uh you know it

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was con

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it's got all the makings of a great

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movie or seen in the x-files

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um you know it it occurred in the the

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parking lot of the

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egng special projects who eg is the

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contractor who handles uh

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the flights to area 51 and a lot of the

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oversight for area 51

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so in the parking lot and uh

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supposedly you know this admiral wilson

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relayed to eric davis that you know

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during his tenure

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in the government that he had sought out

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and

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to see if there were any ufo programs in

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contractors who were working on

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crashed ufos that he had come across at

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least one contractor

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aerospace company who indeed was doing

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something weird and he

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called them up wanted access and that

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they

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on reverse engineering

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he crashed extraterrestrial vehicles uh

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but that he

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did not have access and clearance to

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this and so therefore he was turned away

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and much to his chagrin and so that's

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kind of the

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broad overview of these guys yeah man

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it's a lot to take in and that's i think

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that's kind of why

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it didn't take me out of it of course i

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was interested

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and fascinated by it but then you get to

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the whole idea of

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is any of this even true is it third

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hand testimony you know

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eric davis says this was something told

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to him that he then jotted down and

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that's where you start for me i'm like

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okay well it's just hearsay then

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so yeah sorry to interrupt but yeah what

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do you

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are we talking here this this is kind of

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what we're learning

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where this off-world vehicle sentence

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came from in the new york times so

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yeah bring it all back just him yeah

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circle us around

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okay no no i will i'll tell you why i

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mean in a nutshell why

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the a year ago when these leaked out and

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they leaked out from edgar mitchell

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the former astronaut who passed away in

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2016. they leaked out of his

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archive collection and he was he was a

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board member of ned's and supposedly

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these were

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given to the board members and

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everything the reason that i didn't put

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a lot of stock into him

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and and ultimately still don't for this

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very reason

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is just understanding a fundamental

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principle of secrecy in general

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and so the the these notes hinge on the

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most important thing being that admin

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wilson

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supposedly found this program through

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budget line items it was suspicious

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called him up

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accused him of having alien technology

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he admittedly

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according to notes didn't have access to

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the program it wouldn't be granted

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access to the program

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and therefore the contractor uh you know

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was like yeah we're working on crash

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ufos but you can't come see

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well that's not how secrecy works

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you know you don't you're ryan you don't

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show up to somewhere

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you know you could show up to lockheed

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and they're working on the b21

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raider so the replacement of the b2

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bomber or maybe they've got this sr-73

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you know something even we don't know it

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really exists

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and you're like i know you're working on

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aliens and ufos you don't have access to

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that right

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they're not going to go yeah oh well

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there goes my friday too

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thanks for uh bursting that bubble yeah

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you don't have access right they're not

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going to actually tell you

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what they're really working on and so if

285
00:10:16,150 --> 00:10:14,399
you showed up and said i know you're

286
00:10:19,509 --> 00:10:16,160
working on aliens they're going to go

287
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:19,519
yep sure are bud don't tell anybody now

288
00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:20,240
go and get

289
00:10:25,430 --> 00:10:23,360
yeah and so yeah i mean they all

290
00:10:26,550 --> 00:10:25,440
roads no matter what whether the event

291
00:10:29,030 --> 00:10:26,560
is true or

292
00:10:29,990 --> 00:10:29,040
you know what thomas wilson said was

293
00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:30,000
true all

294
00:10:33,269 --> 00:10:32,959
it doesn't matter they all did in into

295
00:10:35,030 --> 00:10:33,279
this

296
00:10:37,430 --> 00:10:35,040
a was the contractor telling the truth

297
00:10:40,389 --> 00:10:37,440
and and comparatively to how

298
00:10:41,829 --> 00:10:40,399
secrecy actually works when you're not

299
00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:41,839
have access

300
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:43,600
there's overwhelming evidence that says

301
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:45,040
no they weren't they wouldn't be telling

302
00:10:49,829 --> 00:10:45,760
the truth

303
00:10:51,750 --> 00:10:49,839
now to fast forward to when they

304
00:10:53,829 --> 00:10:51,760
i will say that they have i've become

305
00:10:57,190 --> 00:10:53,839
something of renewed interest for me

306
00:10:58,790 --> 00:10:57,200
now uh it has to do not

307
00:11:00,310 --> 00:10:58,800
for the reason a lot of people would

308
00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,320
think and

309
00:11:05,430 --> 00:11:02,720
it's not that i believe that they are

310
00:11:08,069 --> 00:11:05,440
the linchpin to uncovering the

311
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:08,079
crash ufo cover-up it's far more

312
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:09,519
interesting in that

313
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:12,720
um i've talked to enough people

314
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:14,320
going back all the way back to the midst

315
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:15,920
days who were who would have

316
00:11:19,030 --> 00:11:18,079
there in 2001 or two when this meeting

317
00:11:20,870 --> 00:11:19,040
occurred and so

318
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:20,880
you know after the meeting occurred eric

319
00:11:25,829 --> 00:11:22,640
davis would have spoke with

320
00:11:27,190 --> 00:11:25,839
i mean i've talked to plenty of

321
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:27,200
individuals there

322
00:11:32,230 --> 00:11:30,720
that i i have find no evidence that eric

323
00:11:35,350 --> 00:11:32,240
davis is lying

324
00:11:38,389 --> 00:11:35,360
or that these memos that he didn't meet

325
00:11:40,470 --> 00:11:38,399
with somebody and that this was related

326
00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:40,480
and this information as he transcribed

327
00:11:43,990 --> 00:11:42,160
him isn't what he was told

328
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:44,000
it doesn't mean for certain it is but i

329
00:11:47,269 --> 00:11:46,000
would just say that interestingly enough

330
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:47,279
there's an overwhelming amount of

331
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:48,399
evidence that says

332
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:51,120
yeah this meeting occurred within the

333
00:11:54,629 --> 00:11:51,680
last

334
00:11:55,269 --> 00:11:54,639
i guess month or two with billy cox

335
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:55,279
excellent

336
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,760
ufo journalist he was able to speak to

337
00:12:02,470 --> 00:11:59,279
admiral wilson

338
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:02,480
thomas wilson who gave a very

339
00:12:05,590 --> 00:12:04,880
uh very interesting rebuttal to all this

340
00:12:06,949 --> 00:12:05,600
you know said it

341
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:06,959
sounded like fiction never met with a

342
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:08,720
guy doesn't know who the hell davis is

343
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:10,000
what the hell are they talking about you

344
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:11,760
know like this is crazy

345
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:13,440
far beyond what you kind of expect i

346
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:15,120
know the ufo community has said

347
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:17,040
well of course he's just saying that to

348
00:12:20,629 --> 00:12:18,480
keep the cover-up alive

349
00:12:21,829 --> 00:12:20,639
you know yeah i'm like okay why wouldn't

350
00:12:23,829 --> 00:12:21,839
he just say

351
00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:23,839
no no comment on that he said why even

352
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:26,000
answer but

353
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:30,000
for me i think that people have

354
00:12:34,389 --> 00:12:32,399
overlooked dismissed and pushed to the

355
00:12:35,069 --> 00:12:34,399
side another set of documents that were

356
00:12:37,990 --> 00:12:35,079
leaked out

357
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:38,000
simultaneously with these wilson memos

358
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,639
and

359
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:40,800
uh if you're not familiar that was a

360
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,959
series of email exchanges between dr

361
00:12:46,949 --> 00:12:44,399
christopher kitt greene

362
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:46,959
dr howell put off and dr davis same time

363
00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:47,519
frame

364
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:49,680
this email exchange was related to the

365
00:12:53,190 --> 00:12:51,040
santilli

366
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:53,200
alien autopsy video i'm sure you're

367
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:54,720
familiar right right

368
00:13:00,389 --> 00:12:58,560
a little bit yeah i have uh

369
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:00,399
i wish the audience could see my eyes

370
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:02,000
rolling right now they might be able to

371
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:03,360
even hear it at this point

372
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:05,040
but no man please tell me about this

373
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:06,480
because this is a a

374
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:08,639
sub-topic within that whole thing where

375
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:09,680
i'm like are we

376
00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:11,279
seriously talking about the alien

377
00:13:14,629 --> 00:13:12,800
autopsy in 2020

378
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:14,639
yes you tell me why because this leaked

379
00:13:17,670 --> 00:13:15,839
documents these

380
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:17,680
emails came out and the emails were from

381
00:13:21,350 --> 00:13:19,040
kit green

382
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:21,360
uh you know put off and davis were

383
00:13:23,670 --> 00:13:22,079
asking him

384
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:23,680
because he had evidently relayed to them

385
00:13:27,990 --> 00:13:25,920
that he had been shown this alien top

386
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:28,000
autopsy video and told it was real and

387
00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:29,680
kids saying yeah no that's the

388
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:31,040
that's the video i saw that's the video

389
00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:32,880
i saw it was real

390
00:13:36,949 --> 00:13:35,760
um i've spoken to kid several occasions

391
00:13:40,310 --> 00:13:36,959
and

392
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:40,320
that yes he was

393
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:43,360
shown the santelli video that we all

394
00:13:46,710 --> 00:13:44,639
know to be a hoax

395
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:46,720
okay we know who filmed it we know all

396
00:13:49,189 --> 00:13:48,480
this stuff he said yeah no i was shown

397
00:13:51,350 --> 00:13:49,199
that

398
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:51,360
i was told it was real he didn't he

399
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:52,959
didn't tell me who showed him that

400
00:13:56,069 --> 00:13:54,240
he didn't tell me who told him it was

401
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:56,079
real but it was somebody

402
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:59,199
that had enough authority and and enough

403
00:14:01,590 --> 00:14:00,959
credentials behind him that he believed

404
00:14:03,670 --> 00:14:01,600
them

405
00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,680
we can assume well maybe that means that

406
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:04,959
kit green's just a

407
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,519
credulous person but i think if you

408
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:09,600
really look at kit green's background

409
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:11,440
it's pretty impressive you know he was

410
00:14:14,550 --> 00:14:13,279
in a he held some impressive positions

411
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:14,560
for both general motors and more

412
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:16,160
importantly the cia

413
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:19,680
and so i don't just assume that he's

414
00:14:22,870 --> 00:14:22,079
credulous and in fact if you talk to kit

415
00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:22,880
nowadays

416
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:24,480
he's pretty interesting because he i

417
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,639
would say that he is a

418
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,959
a much bigger skeptic of the ufo

419
00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:30,000
phenomena than people

420
00:14:35,030 --> 00:14:32,560
would even imagine but he was full and

421
00:14:39,189 --> 00:14:35,040
somebody with enough sophistication

422
00:14:41,829 --> 00:14:39,199
fooled him who who why i don't know

423
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:41,839
other than it could have been a prank

424
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:42,880
you know it could have been some of the

425
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:44,720
cia colleagues they're like ah let's get

426
00:14:48,310 --> 00:14:47,040
get you know back in my police days we

427
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:48,320
did all sorts of mean things to each

428
00:14:52,230 --> 00:14:48,720
other

429
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:52,240
so maybe that's true um or i don't know

430
00:14:56,949 --> 00:14:55,199
but he was definitely told that and so

431
00:14:58,710 --> 00:14:56,959
what we see with these

432
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:58,720
these memo releases that i find

433
00:15:01,350 --> 00:15:00,079
interesting is that the ones have been

434
00:15:04,949 --> 00:15:01,360
dismissed here

435
00:15:08,509 --> 00:15:04,959
are telling us that somebody uh someone

436
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:08,519
or some organization was providing

437
00:15:14,389 --> 00:15:12,079
disinformation to the needs bass crew

438
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:14,399
and kate green was a member of the knits

439
00:15:17,990 --> 00:15:15,519
board back then

440
00:15:19,829 --> 00:15:18,000
and so therefore i i have this nagging

441
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:19,839
concern that lingers with me with this

442
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,199
wilson documents

443
00:15:25,670 --> 00:15:24,000
is that eric davis isn't lying eric

444
00:15:27,189 --> 00:15:25,680
davis is i don't believe he is

445
00:15:28,550 --> 00:15:27,199
just i have no problem standing on the

446
00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:28,560
record there's nothing that tells me

447
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:29,839
that eric davis is

448
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:32,480
a liar and that he's making this up uh

449
00:15:36,790 --> 00:15:33,920
that he did meet with somebody

450
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:36,800
admittedly he didn't know he'd never met

451
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:37,759
thomas wilson

452
00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:40,560
before that day of these notes perhaps

453
00:15:43,189 --> 00:15:41,040
it's just

454
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:43,199
concerned it still lingers that makes me

455
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:44,639
wonder could he have been

456
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:50,069
we can tell with kit green somebody set

457
00:15:53,350 --> 00:15:51,680
him up

458
00:15:54,870 --> 00:15:53,360
i'm not saying that that's the solution

459
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:54,880
but uh but i

460
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:56,880
for me why that becomes more interesting

461
00:16:01,749 --> 00:15:59,199
is now you um

462
00:16:03,350 --> 00:16:01,759
it brings this other weird element to

463
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:03,360
the ufo topic where

464
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:05,040
it really is a wilderness of mirrors

465
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:06,160
right i know i'm not telling you

466
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:06,639
anything

467
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:09,920
you knew you know the cast of characters

468
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:12,560
out there very interesting you don't

469
00:16:16,470 --> 00:16:14,480
have to have government state actors who

470
00:16:17,269 --> 00:16:16,480
are involved in disinformation you can

471
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:17,279
have

472
00:16:22,230 --> 00:16:20,639
just you know sophisticated hoaxers

473
00:16:23,670 --> 00:16:22,240
you have different people who have

474
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:23,680
agendas so i

475
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:25,920
i wouldn't even gather to speculate who

476
00:16:30,310 --> 00:16:26,800
or why

477
00:16:32,150 --> 00:16:30,320
would try to deceive eric davis possibly

478
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:32,160
or deceive kit green

479
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:35,519
i'm not suggesting that was a government

480
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:38,240
conspiracy you know the the nsa or

481
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:40,240
whoever was like let's set these guys up

482
00:16:44,949 --> 00:16:41,759
but i'm not

483
00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:44,959
fully on board yet that uh

484
00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:48,160
that for certain tom admiral thomas j

485
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:50,320
wilson met with eric davis and said

486
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,920
everything that's in those notes

487
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:54,000
while equally not saying that eric davis

488
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,000
is being dishonest by what

489
00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:58,079
he believes occurred i don't know yet

490
00:17:02,310 --> 00:16:59,519
it's uh

491
00:17:03,509 --> 00:17:02,320
it's interesting but but yeah i mean i

492
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,519
think that lingering

493
00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:05,439
ultimately that lingering overhead of

494
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:07,600
the idea that uh

495
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,240
at the end of the day it all roads lead

496
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:12,079
to was a contractor telling the truth

497
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:16,319
and i all all precedent all evidence

498
00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:17,360
would suggest no

499
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,600
they were not and so i don't think these

500
00:17:21,270 --> 00:17:20,720
are the linchpin that are going to give

501
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:21,280
us the

502
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:22,799
the roswell bodies i know a lot of

503
00:17:26,470 --> 00:17:24,480
people think they will so who knows

504
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:26,480
who knows man and i mean i think you

505
00:17:30,310 --> 00:17:28,000
bring up a good point of

506
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:30,320
the people who bring these things

507
00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:31,280
forward

508
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,200
not not the ones who gave them the

509
00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:34,880
information but the actual

510
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:36,080
whatever you want to call them

511
00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:38,640
whistleblower or individual who

512
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,360
says they heard this uh i would have to

513
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,760
agree in many of these cases i also

514
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:45,760
believe that they are telling the truth

515
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:47,840
as they see it and as they

516
00:17:51,190 --> 00:17:50,320
experienced it and i think that really

517
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:51,200
goes

518
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,039
for the next individual who you've

519
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:54,960
written about in the past uh

520
00:17:58,470 --> 00:17:57,520
i have made this very clear on my show

521
00:18:01,669 --> 00:17:58,480
in public

522
00:18:04,150 --> 00:18:01,679
that i do believe

523
00:18:06,310 --> 00:18:04,160
bob lazar yep his name's coming up again

524
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:06,320
for anyone out there who hates it i'm

525
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:08,480
sorry but we have to touch on this

526
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,200
i have always been under the impression

527
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:13,200
that he is telling the truth as he

528
00:18:17,830 --> 00:18:15,440
experienced it what he saw

529
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:17,840
what he worked on what that was and the

530
00:18:22,230 --> 00:18:19,679
people who

531
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:22,240
hired him or had anything to do with it

532
00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:23,919
what information they're feeding him

533
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:26,480
that's a whole other story um so i want

534
00:18:29,669 --> 00:18:28,160
to get your thoughts on this tim he's

535
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:29,679
back in the news you know

536
00:18:35,029 --> 00:18:32,799
he was on rogan not too long ago and

537
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:35,039
i know you've spoken about bob in your

538
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:36,080
past article so

539
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:38,640
what do you make of the entire bob lazar

540
00:18:42,230 --> 00:18:39,840
affair do you think

541
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:42,240
anything happening right now in the ufo

542
00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:42,880
world

543
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:45,840
vindicates as some have said uh bob

544
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:47,600
lazar's claims what do you what do you

545
00:18:50,950 --> 00:18:48,799
make of all this

546
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,960
good old bob um yeah no i've actually

547
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:52,480
i've spoken with bob

548
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:55,840
um for an article i put out in vice in

549
00:18:58,230 --> 00:18:56,480
november

550
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,240
it had to do with the quote-unquote fbi

551
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:59,600
raid it was in

552
00:19:02,789 --> 00:19:01,760
uh the recent documentary jeremy

553
00:19:05,909 --> 00:19:02,799
corbell's film

554
00:19:07,830 --> 00:19:05,919
yeah you know uh

555
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:07,840
i was on the fence with bob for a long

556
00:19:13,510 --> 00:19:10,000
time and i really uh

557
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:13,520
went into it examining very objectively

558
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:16,799
open-minded open to any outcome

559
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:20,080
i will tell you that based on the

560
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,240
overwhelming totality of evidence

561
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:25,200
that uncovered or has been uncovered by

562
00:19:27,669 --> 00:19:25,840
plenty of

563
00:19:29,590 --> 00:19:27,679
great researchers a lot better than me

564
00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,600
but that i'm aware of that this can be

565
00:19:35,190 --> 00:19:31,520
substantiated and backed up

566
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:35,200
uh i would say in the dearth of known

567
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:36,799
information and evidence that the

568
00:19:41,350 --> 00:19:38,320
balance of probabilities

569
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:41,360
that uh what he

570
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,559
what he has said is being true and even

571
00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:46,559
and i respect what you just said that

572
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:48,640
he's telling the truth is he

573
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:51,760
was solid and what he was exposed to but

574
00:19:54,390 --> 00:19:53,039
i i don't think that

575
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:54,400
you know for me i don't think that's

576
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:56,400
accurate um at least for more the

577
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:57,360
evidence shows

578
00:20:02,230 --> 00:19:59,679
i think that there's not a there's not

579
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:02,240
even enough evidence that he was ever

580
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:05,679
in the position to see anything

581
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,799
like what he's describing i i don't

582
00:20:12,470 --> 00:20:10,799
know there's and i understand that

583
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:12,480
recently you've had you know

584
00:20:16,230 --> 00:20:15,200
a former sr-71 pilot or something who

585
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:16,240
went on

586
00:20:20,230 --> 00:20:18,640
uh where the venue where all truths are

587
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:20,240
told ancient aliens

588
00:20:26,230 --> 00:20:24,080
to say that he was that a friend

589
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:26,240
told him that he saw but you know we're

590
00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:28,240
going to this third hand thing

591
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:31,120
um that lazar was ever at area 51 i

592
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:31,919
think that

593
00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:35,280
um the czar if he he's

594
00:20:38,710 --> 00:20:36,880
not telling the truth he's very good at

595
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:38,720
it and he presents himself

596
00:20:42,390 --> 00:20:41,200
in a way now i won't go down that route

597
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:42,400
i was going to put on my

598
00:20:46,070 --> 00:20:44,559
my behavioral profiling hat like i used

599
00:20:46,630 --> 00:20:46,080
to do in police but i don't think that

600
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:46,640
that's

601
00:20:52,390 --> 00:20:50,320
say that he's good at it

602
00:20:55,029 --> 00:20:52,400
and i mean when i i'd be happy to say

603
00:20:58,390 --> 00:20:55,039
when i interviewed him you know i had

604
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:58,400
uh gotten the entire case file

605
00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:00,159
for the search of his business that was

606
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:02,240
shown in the film from the michigan

607
00:21:04,630 --> 00:21:03,120
state police

608
00:21:06,149 --> 00:21:04,640
and also a local police department there

609
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:06,159
i had spoken with

610
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:07,520
the some of the law enforcement

611
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:09,440
officials who were there

612
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:12,080
um and you know so obviously there was

613
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:13,520
just this wealth of evidence that it

614
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:13,919
wasn't

615
00:21:20,230 --> 00:21:17,039
what is it was portrayed in the movie

616
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:20,240
and this element 115 deal and in fact

617
00:21:23,750 --> 00:21:21,600
the fbi

618
00:21:25,270 --> 00:21:23,760
um when they were called in all this

619
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:25,280
kind of stuff and so

620
00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:27,039
you know when i pushed him on those

621
00:21:33,029 --> 00:21:29,200
details when we spoke

622
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:33,039
um you know he brought in new details

623
00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:36,799
to explain away my concerns you know

624
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:39,760
i think a good example is that event and

625
00:21:43,990 --> 00:21:40,159
i

626
00:21:45,750 --> 00:21:44,000
whatever

627
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:45,760
information's in front of us and believe

628
00:21:49,270 --> 00:21:47,440
that that's the most accurate

629
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:49,280
or forget about those other details but

630
00:21:53,909 --> 00:21:51,600
you know there's a lot of things

631
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,919
there you know when that raid occurred

632
00:21:56,870 --> 00:21:55,600
the the day after that raid occurred bob

633
00:21:59,590 --> 00:21:56,880
lazar went on reddit

634
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:59,600
via his uh employee that worked there

635
00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:01,120
united nuclear

636
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:03,600
and said hey guys he described the raid

637
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:05,600
exactly to a tee as the police reports

638
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:06,640
did

639
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,919
exactly what it was about and everything

640
00:22:10,390 --> 00:22:09,679
it didn't become an area of an element

641
00:22:14,789 --> 00:22:10,400
115

642
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,799
raid until the movie came out and um

643
00:22:18,149 --> 00:22:17,200
you know i brought that up with bob like

644
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:18,159
what what the hell

645
00:22:23,669 --> 00:22:21,600
dude you know um and that's when

646
00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:23,679
that you know supposedly he was cornered

647
00:22:28,630 --> 00:22:26,720
upstairs by some fbi agents who

648
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:28,640
mentioned it 115 and it becomes this

649
00:22:32,549 --> 00:22:30,000
thing like

650
00:22:33,590 --> 00:22:32,559
why why are more details always added

651
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:33,600
why aren't we

652
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:36,320
saying all this up front like why is

653
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:37,200
this

654
00:22:44,230 --> 00:22:40,960
story but i think i'll just say that

655
00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:44,240
my ultimate my final opinion on lazar

656
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:46,640
is that uh at the end of the day i don't

657
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:48,320
want to express any more brain

658
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:51,440
energy on that story because he told me

659
00:22:56,390 --> 00:22:54,799
well he did not confirm for it but

660
00:22:59,110 --> 00:22:56,400
definitely enough people around him seem

661
00:23:02,230 --> 00:22:59,120
to confirm it that he supposedly has a

662
00:23:05,830 --> 00:23:02,240
a secret piece of element 115 this

663
00:23:07,270 --> 00:23:05,840
alien fuel that powers the saucers um

664
00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:07,280
we won't even get on to how the hell do

665
00:23:10,870 --> 00:23:09,760
you sneak that off of a place that

666
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:10,880
it's one of the most secure places in

667
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:12,799
the world neither here nor there uh

668
00:23:16,149 --> 00:23:15,679
supposedly he has it and my thing is

669
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:16,159
that

670
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:20,240
pablo's our store

671
00:23:23,590 --> 00:23:21,679
you know short of them admitting yeah

672
00:23:25,590 --> 00:23:23,600
yeah we got nine eight saucers

673
00:23:26,630 --> 00:23:25,600
s4 he's right that could easily

674
00:23:28,710 --> 00:23:26,640
vindicate his story

675
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:28,720
that could easily you know if if he had

676
00:23:32,549 --> 00:23:30,240
that presented

677
00:23:33,590 --> 00:23:32,559
i'm certain we could find somebody with

678
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,600
uh

679
00:23:36,789 --> 00:23:35,360
the right kind of background that would

680
00:23:39,430 --> 00:23:36,799
be interested in this

681
00:23:41,669 --> 00:23:39,440
this and that would not only would could

682
00:23:42,630 --> 00:23:41,679
bob lazar if he wanted to and that was

683
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,640
true

684
00:23:46,149 --> 00:23:44,640
vindicate himself but but ryan he could

685
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:46,159
actually like

686
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:47,200
screw the government we have to worry

687
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,600
about them he could prove

688
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:51,440
that extraterrestrials that all of this

689
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:53,440
is true single-handedly

690
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:56,480
and um he chooses not to

691
00:24:02,630 --> 00:23:59,760
i asked him you know would he be willing

692
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,640
to come out with this element 115 and

693
00:24:05,909 --> 00:24:04,640
prove it and he he his divers were

694
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:05,919
absolutely not

695
00:24:12,310 --> 00:24:09,200
but maybe if he got adequate funding

696
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:12,320
in a big lab so you paid him and got him

697
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:13,600
in a big lab

698
00:24:21,669 --> 00:24:18,480
then maybe he would come out with it so

699
00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:21,679
um yeah which important to know there

700
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:23,200
at one point in time a lot of people

701
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:24,960
don't realize but in the early 90s he

702
00:24:32,549 --> 00:24:25,679
had that

703
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:32,559
big money in lab and he actually

704
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:34,640
lost all that because i think um

705
00:24:38,470 --> 00:24:36,080
according to jacques valet

706
00:24:39,510 --> 00:24:38,480
bob came in bob bigelow that is came in

707
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,520
and

708
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:42,000
discovered that you know either whatever

709
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,840
element 115 or some other type of

710
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:45,840
product he was saying was alien was

711
00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:47,600
actually some industrial

712
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:49,360
something that was in a bottle in the

713
00:24:53,830 --> 00:24:50,640
lab so

714
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:53,840
i think yeah i just that's where i stand

715
00:24:58,070 --> 00:24:54,480
now

716
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:58,080
ryan is that uh yeah i mean if what he's

717
00:25:01,590 --> 00:24:59,679
saying is true then

718
00:25:02,710 --> 00:25:01,600
besides the stories that are clearly

719
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:02,720
unprovable

720
00:25:09,510 --> 00:25:05,919
he supposedly he has physical proof

721
00:25:12,070 --> 00:25:09,520
i mean why people aren't going

722
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:12,080
what demanding bob lazar give disclosure

723
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,400
i'll never know well

724
00:25:17,669 --> 00:25:16,960
and you gotta wonder too tim like we

725
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:17,679
know he

726
00:25:22,630 --> 00:25:21,279
wrote his somebody sorry somebody wrote

727
00:25:24,630 --> 00:25:22,640
his autobiography

728
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:24,640
i won't go there um people know my

729
00:25:30,390 --> 00:25:26,640
thoughts on bob lazar's book

730
00:25:32,470 --> 00:25:30,400
at this point but um the fact that he is

731
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:32,480
in connection with tom delong clearly

732
00:25:37,669 --> 00:25:34,880
they published his autobiography

733
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:37,679
uh you gotta wonder you know how far

734
00:25:41,590 --> 00:25:39,039
does that relationship

735
00:25:42,070 --> 00:25:41,600
go could bob lazar get the funding he

736
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:42,080
needs

737
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:44,400
through to the stars or or as we're

738
00:25:49,029 --> 00:25:46,080
learning to the stars working with

739
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:49,039
the army now and the other big thing is

740
00:25:53,669 --> 00:25:51,279
if he is in possession of this

741
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:53,679
element that supposedly fuels these

742
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:54,960
craft

743
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:57,440
that he witnessed is it hidden somewhere

744
00:26:00,789 --> 00:25:58,400
and is that in

745
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:00,799
insurance you know when he first came

746
00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:02,400
forward he said this is why i came

747
00:26:06,070 --> 00:26:03,200
forward it was an

748
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:06,080
insurance on my life you know now people

749
00:26:12,310 --> 00:26:06,480
know

750
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:12,320
are we gonna see this element come

751
00:26:15,909 --> 00:26:13,520
forward when

752
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:15,919
you know ultimately as we all do leave

753
00:26:19,990 --> 00:26:18,080
this mortal coil when bob lazar does

754
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:20,000
that are we gonna finally get the map to

755
00:26:23,669 --> 00:26:21,279
where he hit it or

756
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:23,679
or what but you make a good point if it

757
00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:25,120
if he had this

758
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:28,000
and as he always claims the technology i

759
00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:29,440
reverse engineered could change the

760
00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:31,200
world for the better forever

761
00:26:34,870 --> 00:26:33,200
why is he keeping it hidden somewhere

762
00:26:37,029 --> 00:26:34,880
when he himself

763
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:37,039
could change the world with this i i

764
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:38,320
have to wonder too

765
00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:41,279
and i know anybody who listens to this

766
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:42,720
who who definitely is

767
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,400
you know firmly believes lazar that's

768
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:46,080
fine i get that i'm not

769
00:26:50,549 --> 00:26:48,799
trying to change minds here but um yeah

770
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,559
no i know one of those arguments

771
00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:52,480
is well no he can't come forward with it

772
00:26:56,710 --> 00:26:54,240
you know the government would off him or

773
00:26:58,630 --> 00:26:56,720
he'd go to jail and everything and and

774
00:27:00,470 --> 00:26:58,640
everything that you just said

775
00:27:01,669 --> 00:27:00,480
what he said is this could change the

776
00:27:03,029 --> 00:27:01,679
world for the better that this will

777
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:03,039
prove alien life

778
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:07,039
well thank god that history

779
00:27:10,230 --> 00:27:09,360
had people like harriet tubman or martin

780
00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:10,240
luther king

781
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:13,679
or nathan hale who were willing to

782
00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:15,679
risk things for the betterment of

783
00:27:20,230 --> 00:27:17,440
humanity or mankind

784
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:20,240
if i had it i would i would share it

785
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:21,279
with the world

786
00:27:29,750 --> 00:27:27,669
warning if you like your ufo literature

787
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:29,760
to confirm what you already know

788
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:32,240
this is not the book for you from white

789
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:34,000
crow books comes a brand new collection

790
00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:37,520
of essays 14 authors one goal to shatter

791
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,720
the ufo topic

792
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:40,720
and pick up the pieces in a whole new

793
00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:43,039
light compiled and edited by robbie

794
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:43,520
graham

795
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:45,520
with a foreword by professor diana walsh

796
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,120
basulka ufos

797
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,840
reframing the debate is a cold hard slap

798
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:51,440
in the face for ufology

799
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:54,320
delivered with love ufos reframing the

800
00:27:57,110 --> 00:27:54,960
debate

801
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:57,120
available now in paperback and ebook on

802
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:58,799
amazon and at barnes noble

803
00:28:03,029 --> 00:28:01,360
the book depository and the ibooks store

804
00:28:03,830 --> 00:28:03,039
for a complete list of contributors and

805
00:28:08,549 --> 00:28:03,840
to learn more

806
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:11,510
well okay well we've we've pretty much

807
00:28:14,789 --> 00:28:12,240
tackled

808
00:28:16,149 --> 00:28:14,799
everything we possibly could tim but i

809
00:28:17,430 --> 00:28:16,159
do have some listener questions

810
00:28:19,350 --> 00:28:17,440
if you're willing to stick around for

811
00:28:20,870 --> 00:28:19,360
those yeah absolutely man

812
00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:20,880
awesome all right well the first one

813
00:28:24,389 --> 00:28:23,840
here comes from mountains of madness on

814
00:28:26,870 --> 00:28:24,399
twitter

815
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:26,880
love that name uh what do you think

816
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:27,440
about

817
00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:30,559
richard dolan's concept of a breakaway

818
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:32,080
civilization this is a really

819
00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:33,840
interesting thing you know that

820
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,919
dolan pretty much came up with i think

821
00:28:39,830 --> 00:28:38,080
you know maybe decades ago but

822
00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:39,840
do you know anything about what this

823
00:28:43,830 --> 00:28:41,200
term is tim and

824
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:43,840
uh make anything of it just generally i

825
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,640
haven't heard

826
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:46,320
richard dolan's version of it but but i

827
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:48,240
would say the variations of it i've

828
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:48,799
heard

829
00:28:52,389 --> 00:28:51,919
from various people in fact a good buddy

830
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:52,399
of mine

831
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,080
who i've written for the war zone tyler

832
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:56,320
roadway who's the

833
00:29:00,149 --> 00:28:58,240
editor over there i mean he he i will

834
00:29:01,430 --> 00:29:00,159
say i think he'd be okay with me saying

835
00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:01,440
that he kind of espouses

836
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:05,200
a maybe a similar breakaway civilization

837
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:07,279
idea for what the tic tac and stuff are

838
00:29:09,870 --> 00:29:08,320
but rather

839
00:29:13,669 --> 00:29:09,880
puts that breakaway in kind of the

840
00:29:15,909 --> 00:29:13,679
military-industrial complex

841
00:29:17,029 --> 00:29:15,919
and so i'm not sure if dolan's is like a

842
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:17,039
true i know there's a

843
00:29:22,470 --> 00:29:20,080
true breakaway civilization um

844
00:29:24,870 --> 00:29:22,480
and uh yeah i don't know i mean i think

845
00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:24,880
that um

846
00:29:29,669 --> 00:29:27,440
it's an interesting story but there's a

847
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:29,679
lot of interesting stories in this field

848
00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:33,679
and you know i hear a lot of interesting

849
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:35,039
stories and i think that's an

850
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:36,799
interesting story and i usually just

851
00:29:40,630 --> 00:29:38,640
stick with them there but in terms of

852
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,640
what i think is provable and there's

853
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:42,000
evidence to support

854
00:29:46,630 --> 00:29:44,559
it falls into that where i i haven't

855
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:46,640
seen any evidence to support

856
00:29:53,590 --> 00:29:50,399
that and uh it raises

857
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:53,600
a lot of interesting questions like what

858
00:29:57,669 --> 00:29:54,240
the hell

859
00:29:59,909 --> 00:29:57,679
you know we don't have any clue

860
00:30:01,750 --> 00:29:59,919
we can't honestly comprehend how alien

861
00:30:03,750 --> 00:30:01,760
psychology or what the thought process

862
00:30:07,269 --> 00:30:03,760
is of real true aliens would be

863
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:07,279
because it's alien i mean we don't know

864
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:10,080
we can interpret human behavior and so i

865
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:11,440
don't know

866
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:13,279
what you know i can't think of a human

867
00:30:16,389 --> 00:30:15,760
parallel comparison to where you would

868
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:16,399
develop

869
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:19,760
something that um is so far advanced

870
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:22,159
and that that's kind of the lost point

871
00:30:27,350 --> 00:30:23,919
in all of it when we consider it being

872
00:30:30,470 --> 00:30:27,360
classified black technology is that um

873
00:30:32,710 --> 00:30:30,480
you know the if we take

874
00:30:34,230 --> 00:30:32,720
for face value that some some of the

875
00:30:36,870 --> 00:30:34,240
videos some of the photographs

876
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:36,880
or you know the the testimony by highly

877
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:38,960
skilled aviators like commander fravor

878
00:30:42,310 --> 00:30:41,360
uh and the pilots who witnessed the tic

879
00:30:44,789 --> 00:30:42,320
tac

880
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,799
and what they saw you know we're talking

881
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:46,080
about objects that are capable of

882
00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:47,120
achieving flight

883
00:30:53,990 --> 00:30:51,360
by means that we have no clue how to do

884
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:54,000
uh you know whether it's the the b2

885
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:55,120
stealth bomber

886
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:58,080
or the wright brothers plane flight is

887
00:31:02,230 --> 00:30:59,919
achieved by the exact same principles

888
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:02,240
there's been no dramatic change there

889
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:05,679
you know it's same principles of of lift

890
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:07,360
angle of attack with the control

891
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:09,039
surfaces and wings

892
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,880
um that's how we achieve flight whether

893
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:12,240
it's helicopters planes

894
00:31:16,549 --> 00:31:14,240
whatever the only other option is firing

895
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:16,559
a rocket you know as fast as we can

896
00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:19,840
in the air but um that's the only ways

897
00:31:22,630 --> 00:31:21,279
we know how to achieve flight and so

898
00:31:22,950 --> 00:31:22,640
when you're talking about these objects

899
00:31:26,070 --> 00:31:22,960
that

900
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:26,080
lack control surfaces uh you know just

901
00:31:29,830 --> 00:31:27,840
kick out all the instantaneous

902
00:31:31,509 --> 00:31:29,840
acceleration and all of you know the

903
00:31:35,750 --> 00:31:31,519
ability to stop on a dime and

904
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:35,760
acute angled turns that's just a

905
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:38,640
massive list of aerospace abilities that

906
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:39,760
we don't even know how to do

907
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:43,360
one so somebody that somebody

908
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:46,000
could have developed that completely in

909
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:48,240
secret and then break away

910
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:50,960
um either a hide it within government or

911
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:51,279
b

912
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:53,120
hide it i don't know where the hell are

913
00:31:56,549 --> 00:31:54,320
they hiding it's

914
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:56,559
antarctica i don't know but when you

915
00:32:01,269 --> 00:31:58,399
work intelligence

916
00:32:01,909 --> 00:32:01,279
you know criminal intelligence and any

917
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:01,919
intelligence

918
00:32:07,269 --> 00:32:05,519
first questions that you want to answer

919
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:07,279
are motivation and intent

920
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:08,720
once you know motivation and intent

921
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:10,480
everything else kind of falls into play

922
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:11,840
and so

923
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:15,120
um i don't i mean i don't know and i

924
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:17,840
would be willing to listen to richard

925
00:32:22,070 --> 00:32:20,480
dole or anybody else try to help explain

926
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,080
what they think the motivation and

927
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:24,799
intent for a breakaway society

928
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:27,440
yeah that's a really good way of putting

929
00:32:30,630 --> 00:32:28,559
it and you know it

930
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:30,640
it comes down to the highest bidder tim

931
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,480
whoever gets that technology

932
00:32:35,669 --> 00:32:34,799
so and there's a motivation and they're

933
00:32:37,909 --> 00:32:35,679
not bidding it

934
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,919
yeah yeah there's the motivation right

935
00:32:41,590 --> 00:32:39,039
thing yeah

936
00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:41,600
right really good point they're not

937
00:32:44,789 --> 00:32:42,720
bidding it um

938
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:44,799
that's a really good point um all right

939
00:32:48,950 --> 00:32:46,159
well sarahm

940
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:48,960
on twitter asks how has your knowledge

941
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:51,279
of the ufo phenomenon changed your

942
00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:52,159
outlook

943
00:32:55,990 --> 00:32:55,440
on life uh how have your paradigms

944
00:32:58,950 --> 00:32:56,000
change this

945
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:58,960
is what my book is about how these

946
00:33:02,789 --> 00:32:59,519
events

947
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:02,799
affect you afterward before during

948
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:06,000
yeah tim um yeah how did your ufo event

949
00:33:09,269 --> 00:33:08,640
change you if it did in any way you know

950
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:09,279
i i

951
00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:11,679
wish that i could say one of the things

952
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:12,720
and we talked about that first seven

953
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:14,320
years before i started writing articles

954
00:33:17,909 --> 00:33:16,399
when i was looking at this from a from a

955
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:17,919
kind of a cognitive investigative

956
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:18,960
approach

957
00:33:22,470 --> 00:33:20,960
is one of the things that i probably the

958
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:22,480
only thing that i was able to really

959
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:23,360
gather that

960
00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:25,679
conclusively was identify uh a

961
00:33:31,509 --> 00:33:27,200
behavioral profile of people

962
00:33:34,630 --> 00:33:31,519
who had actually experienced

963
00:33:38,230 --> 00:33:34,640
real uh anomalous events

964
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:38,240
so real sightings of ufos um and because

965
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:40,240
it was very consistent and and like i

966
00:33:43,269 --> 00:33:42,000
said i was a behavioral profiler so this

967
00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:43,279
is kind of what you do

968
00:33:48,470 --> 00:33:46,720
and so um i wish that i'd had events

969
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:48,480
like them because that profile

970
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:49,919
was very interesting because it was

971
00:33:54,149 --> 00:33:52,320
always consistent in that

972
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:54,159
describing and discussing the events

973
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:57,200
were a little uncomfortable

974
00:34:01,269 --> 00:33:59,200
i use this term because it's really the

975
00:34:04,470 --> 00:34:01,279
only one that i have to associate

976
00:34:07,269 --> 00:34:04,480
the behavioral demeanor

977
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,279
but it sounds bad uh and that is even in

978
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:09,119
retelling the story is shame

979
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:11,119
it's like they're ashamed in a way that

980
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:12,480
this they have seen this and this has

981
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:13,599
occurred

982
00:34:18,710 --> 00:34:17,440
um they will often while telling it

983
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:18,720
it's very interesting because they they

984
00:34:21,990 --> 00:34:21,599
mitigate kind of the surreal nature of

985
00:34:25,349 --> 00:34:22,000
it

986
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:25,359
in their mind um to themselves so not to

987
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,879
you that they're telling it to but you

988
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:30,480
nine out of 10 times as they're telling

989
00:34:34,069 --> 00:34:32,560
the story they will try to explain

990
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:34,079
possibly a prosaic explanation that

991
00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:36,000
doesn't fit um

992
00:34:38,629 --> 00:34:37,119
you know like they'll say hey you know

993
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:38,639
there was an airport nearby so it could

994
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:39,679
have been a plane but

995
00:34:43,270 --> 00:34:40,960
you know never mind that that wouldn't

996
00:34:46,149 --> 00:34:43,280
fit because it shot off at you know

997
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:46,159
50 000 miles per hour um so they they go

998
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:47,760
this weird kind of ebb and flow with

999
00:34:52,869 --> 00:34:50,240
trying to explain it to themselves but

1000
00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:52,879
they all have this consistent behavioral

1001
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:54,000
profile that

1002
00:34:58,310 --> 00:34:56,320
to me appears that whatever that they

1003
00:35:00,950 --> 00:34:58,320
saw there's no doubt my mind

1004
00:35:01,990 --> 00:35:00,960
that it was so consistent that it

1005
00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:02,000
challenged

1006
00:35:07,270 --> 00:35:05,200
their definition of reality it was it's

1007
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:07,280
it was tough for them like it's it's

1008
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:09,200
just weird because it's not

1009
00:35:13,510 --> 00:35:11,680
supposed to be real and it challenged it

1010
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:13,520
i didn't my experience wasn't like that

1011
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:15,200
and that's what i said i didn't

1012
00:35:19,589 --> 00:35:17,839
nothing that i saw performance wise like

1013
00:35:21,750 --> 00:35:19,599
you know but i saw didn't just like

1014
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:21,760
dart off in an instant and me go holy

1015
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:23,359
that's not supposed to be real

1016
00:35:27,349 --> 00:35:25,359
i didn't see anything up close that type

1017
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:27,359
of thing and so it didn't have this

1018
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:30,640
dramatic effect on me that i think uh

1019
00:35:33,670 --> 00:35:33,280
has for a lot of other people that truly

1020
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,680
have

1021
00:35:36,950 --> 00:35:35,760
i mean that let's see that's probably

1022
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:36,960
some of the most conclusive

1023
00:35:40,230 --> 00:35:38,480
evidence i've ever seen they've

1024
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:40,240
encountered something at least that they

1025
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:41,119
perceive

1026
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:44,880
is not in their reality and so i yeah my

1027
00:35:48,390 --> 00:35:46,640
experience didn't change me in that

1028
00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:48,400
regard probably the biggest

1029
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:51,760
change was just uh created this new

1030
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:52,800
mystery

1031
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:56,079
that i wanted to solve the idea that

1032
00:36:02,470 --> 00:35:59,359
uh ufos could represent um

1033
00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:02,480
aliens interdimensionals you know space

1034
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:03,760
poltergeist or

1035
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:05,680
black technology has always been on the

1036
00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:08,000
table i'm okay with any of those

1037
00:36:11,270 --> 00:36:10,160
it's but it's the mystery and intrigue

1038
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:11,280
of it and so

1039
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:14,400
i would say that if anything

1040
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:17,440
big changes it gave me a really a really

1041
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:18,480
great topic

1042
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:21,280
to explore yeah because i don't if you

1043
00:36:23,750 --> 00:36:22,079
like mysteries

1044
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:23,760
it's fantastic because it's full of

1045
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:25,200
twists and turns

1046
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:28,400
oh yeah and uh no end in sight either

1047
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:30,800
no so yeah no that's i wish i could say

1048
00:36:36,230 --> 00:36:32,640
that it changed me dramatically

1049
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:36,240
but um not you know

1050
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:39,920
not in the way that i saw with real uh

1051
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,960
experience or

1052
00:36:45,589 --> 00:36:42,400
let's just say that and i'm not talking

1053
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:45,599
about uh abduction experiences but just

1054
00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:48,640
experiences anomalous events well i

1055
00:36:51,190 --> 00:36:50,160
think that's a great answer and i think

1056
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:51,200
you're right the journey

1057
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:53,599
is always far more rewarding than the

1058
00:36:56,710 --> 00:36:56,000
the destination with many things in life

1059
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:56,720
but uh

1060
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:59,040
i i do agree and if anything you just

1061
00:37:02,230 --> 00:37:00,560
coined a new term that i'm

1062
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:02,240
probably gonna steal in that space

1063
00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:03,760
poltergeist wow

1064
00:37:08,390 --> 00:37:06,880
that's a band name right there that well

1065
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:08,400
yeah and i can't take credit for that

1066
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:11,280
that's uh jason calaveto who

1067
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:14,000
fair enough very critical yeah yes he

1068
00:37:15,829 --> 00:37:14,320
like

1069
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:15,839
i i don't even know if it's true he

1070
00:37:18,630 --> 00:37:17,440
always brings it up saying that uh

1071
00:37:20,069 --> 00:37:18,640
actually how put off should be the

1072
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:20,079
person attributed that i don't even know

1073
00:38:13,190 --> 00:37:20,640
i

1074
00:38:15,829 --> 00:38:13,200
that's just

1075
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,839
straight from the hill um i've got

1076
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:17,599
nothing to give you

1077
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:20,960
uh a reason why every interview that

1078
00:38:23,430 --> 00:38:22,480
he's ever has ever been brought up with

1079
00:38:26,470 --> 00:38:23,440
him and everything

1080
00:38:27,990 --> 00:38:26,480
he that doesn't seem to be an issue or

1081
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:28,000
domain that i think he spent a

1082
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:29,680
considerable amount of time of even

1083
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:31,920
though he may have been briefed he may

1084
00:38:35,430 --> 00:38:33,520
have received briefings he

1085
00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:35,440
you know obviously this task force falls

1086
00:38:38,310 --> 00:38:36,880
on an executive branch and therefore

1087
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:38,320
falls under his control

1088
00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:41,280
i just don't think uh he's had the same

1089
00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:41,839
amount of

1090
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:44,240
interest i don't think that president

1091
00:38:47,589 --> 00:38:45,119
trump

1092
00:38:48,630 --> 00:38:47,599
i don't think he sees it as this uh

1093
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:48,640
potential

1094
00:38:53,030 --> 00:38:51,760
election saver or even like big fu if he

1095
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:53,040
lost the election

1096
00:38:57,910 --> 00:38:55,520
i don't think he he he views the topic

1097
00:38:59,829 --> 00:38:57,920
that way you know he said that's just

1098
00:39:01,589 --> 00:38:59,839
totally from the hip i don't i don't see

1099
00:39:03,349 --> 00:39:01,599
it happening but who knows hey man you

1100
00:39:06,390 --> 00:39:03,359
know

1101
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,400
it's 20 20 right yeah man hashtag ufo

1102
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:08,400
twitter he may hit it up who knows

1103
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:11,200
who knows we might see him on there um

1104
00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:12,240
something

1105
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:15,440
but uh okay here's our our last listener

1106
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:16,800
question ray

1107
00:39:20,069 --> 00:39:19,280
and you phone nut on twitter they both

1108
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:20,079
ask uh

1109
00:39:23,829 --> 00:39:23,040
similar question here have you or anyone

1110
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:23,839
you know

1111
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:26,800
ever tried to reach neil mccaslin for

1112
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,520
comments this is the guy who supposedly

1113
00:39:33,109 --> 00:39:31,760
gave his information to tom delong he

1114
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:33,119
was kind of the

1115
00:39:36,950 --> 00:39:35,280
the one who connected delon to all these

1116
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:36,960
powerful intelligence

1117
00:39:41,829 --> 00:39:39,920
people and and everything i mean and

1118
00:39:42,230 --> 00:39:41,839
told along some pretty profound stuff

1119
00:39:44,870 --> 00:39:42,240
you know

1120
00:39:45,349 --> 00:39:44,880
something crashing 47 this that this

1121
00:39:47,109 --> 00:39:45,359
that

1122
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:47,119
yeah and has anyone ever tried to reach

1123
00:39:52,310 --> 00:39:49,359
this guy because he seems to be the one

1124
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:52,320
who started this all yeah no no i and

1125
00:39:55,990 --> 00:39:52,800
yes

1126
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:56,000
uh and a half i have indeed reached out

1127
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,920
to general mccaslin because he's retired

1128
00:40:02,550 --> 00:39:59,760
now and you're right he

1129
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,560
uh is mentioned in the wikileaks and he

1130
00:40:05,190 --> 00:40:04,400
i'm not certain that tom de long has

1131
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:05,200
ever

1132
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:07,440
maybe he has been identified as the

1133
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:09,760
general that you know the infamous uh

1134
00:40:14,069 --> 00:40:13,040
i don't know if the person yeah we found

1135
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:14,079
a life for him

1136
00:40:17,190 --> 00:40:16,720
but uh yeah no i have reached out to him

1137
00:40:19,589 --> 00:40:17,200
and

1138
00:40:21,430 --> 00:40:19,599
he he didn't answer for me you know i

1139
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:21,440
mean it's not a subject that he cares to

1140
00:40:25,109 --> 00:40:22,560
discuss

1141
00:40:26,710 --> 00:40:25,119
and you know even off the record so he

1142
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:26,720
didn't he didn't even tell me

1143
00:40:29,910 --> 00:40:28,240
yeah no here's the real truth but this

1144
00:40:32,069 --> 00:40:29,920
is off the record it was

1145
00:40:33,990 --> 00:40:32,079
not something he cares to discuss i

1146
00:40:37,589 --> 00:40:34,000
think um

1147
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:37,599
the ufo field in general has

1148
00:40:42,069 --> 00:40:40,880
often makes assumptions based on what

1149
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:42,079
people say

1150
00:40:45,109 --> 00:40:44,480
i have joked with louis lozando that you

1151
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:45,119
know

1152
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,200
every word that he says people think is

1153
00:40:53,430 --> 00:40:50,160
a hint for disclosure and so i said

1154
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:53,440
he sells obscure books by mere mention

1155
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:56,720
um and you know i think we we have

1156
00:41:00,390 --> 00:40:59,119
often have a have a bad habit of reading

1157
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:00,400
too much into things

1158
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:03,760
and so i i i don't his unwillingness to

1159
00:41:08,150 --> 00:41:04,800
want to discuss it

1160
00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:08,160
doesn't sway me either way as to whether

1161
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:10,160
he did meet with the long and tell him

1162
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:11,920
all these things or

1163
00:41:15,030 --> 00:41:13,520
and he just doesn't you know it's

1164
00:41:15,589 --> 00:41:15,040
classified you don't want to talk about

1165
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:15,599
it

1166
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:17,680
because you know tom delong does not

1167
00:41:21,349 --> 00:41:19,040
have a security clearance so we're on

1168
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:21,359
the same page um

1169
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,319
at the same time it doesn't mean he

1170
00:41:27,190 --> 00:41:24,480
didn't i think that

1171
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:27,200
kind of one of these things that uh if

1172
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:28,000
you take yourself

1173
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:31,280
out of the ufo community and and you're

1174
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:32,880
not an enthusiast of the subject you

1175
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:35,760
realize the ufo community makes it a in

1176
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:37,200
a bad

1177
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:41,520
lose-lose situation

1178
00:41:44,790 --> 00:41:44,480
because you know if he came out and said

1179
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:44,800
no

1180
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:52,079
mr delong misinterpreted

1181
00:41:54,870 --> 00:41:53,200
you know i thought he was talking about

1182
00:41:55,589 --> 00:41:54,880
a fictional book or movie and i was

1183
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,599
giving him

1184
00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:58,079
ideas i thought i was being a a

1185
00:42:01,510 --> 00:42:00,160
consultant a subject matter expert

1186
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:01,520
uh you know helping out a friend or

1187
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:03,599
something i that was not real life

1188
00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:05,920
if he says that everybody's gonna come

1189
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:08,400
out and go he's lying it's the cover-up

1190
00:42:12,230 --> 00:42:11,359
um if he came out and said oh yeah hell

1191
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,240
yeah it's true

1192
00:42:16,069 --> 00:42:14,880
yep true true half of them are gonna go

1193
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:16,079
it's the cover-up

1194
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:19,440
you know somehow you know the other half

1195
00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:21,359
are going to i don't know storm right

1196
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:22,720
patterson who knows

1197
00:42:26,470 --> 00:42:25,680
so um there's no advantage for him

1198
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:26,480
discussing it

1199
00:42:30,150 --> 00:42:28,319
one way or another so i don't know but i

1200
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:30,160
have tried you know i know a lot of

1201
00:42:34,309 --> 00:42:31,119
people

1202
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:34,319
pressure on the castle and i'm like look

1203
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,599
i'm not i'm not

1204
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,440
i'm not gonna break into this retired

1205
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:39,119
general's home and harass him

1206
00:42:42,790 --> 00:42:42,240
right you know well that's another thing

1207
00:42:43,750 --> 00:42:42,800
too tim

1208
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:43,760
i mean there have been some

1209
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:45,760
irresponsible journalists in the past

1210
00:42:49,510 --> 00:42:47,200
who have outed people

1211
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:49,520
uh one of which was the female pilot

1212
00:42:52,870 --> 00:42:51,200
during the nimitz event

1213
00:42:55,910 --> 00:42:52,880
who never wanted their name out there

1214
00:42:57,910 --> 00:42:55,920
and a quote-unquote journalist

1215
00:42:59,589 --> 00:42:57,920
put her name out there and that's just

1216
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:59,599
you know one of the most irresponsible

1217
00:43:02,309 --> 00:43:00,640
things you can do

1218
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,319
and i mean if that person worked for a

1219
00:43:05,510 --> 00:43:04,319
mainstream outlet they would have been

1220
00:43:08,630 --> 00:43:05,520
fired immediately

1221
00:43:10,829 --> 00:43:08,640
but um yeah i think it's hard because

1222
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,839
a lot of these things are

1223
00:43:14,470 --> 00:43:12,560
unsubstantiated and

1224
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:14,480
made by anonymous people and where do

1225
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:16,640
you go from there but

1226
00:43:19,910 --> 00:43:18,079
it's it is tough because you can

1227
00:43:21,430 --> 00:43:19,920
understand on one side of it these

1228
00:43:22,630 --> 00:43:21,440
people don't want to be connected to

1229
00:43:23,910 --> 00:43:22,640
this but they do want to get the

1230
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:23,920
information out

1231
00:43:28,710 --> 00:43:26,560
and some of them just they don't want

1232
00:43:30,390 --> 00:43:28,720
their names or faces out there and you

1233
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:30,400
have to respect that

1234
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,680
yeah it's tough because when it is

1235
00:43:34,870 --> 00:43:33,520
anonymous that's when the ufo community

1236
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:34,880
starts going crazy

1237
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:37,680
and making up yeah or they can't

1238
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:39,119
and i'll tell you that the pilot that

1239
00:43:44,950 --> 00:43:41,440
you're referring to i've spoken

1240
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,960
to her several times and i consider her

1241
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:46,319
to be

1242
00:43:49,349 --> 00:43:48,880
the most compelling eyewitness to that

1243
00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:49,359
event

1244
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:51,200
of all the pilots i spoke to and yeah

1245
00:43:55,750 --> 00:43:52,800
it's very fortunate because

1246
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:55,760
you know in her case yeah no i was very

1247
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:57,440
close to i mean she was willing to go on

1248
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:58,160
the record

1249
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:01,040
with me and name and everything because

1250
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:02,960
and hopefully when she retires one day

1251
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:06,160
she will but um you know the next she's

1252
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:06,640
still

1253
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:08,960
in the navy and so she can't i mean she

1254
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:09,920
has to

1255
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:12,560
get approval uh for the navy to come out

1256
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:13,920
and say this and and they

1257
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:16,160
didn't want to give approval to that and

1258
00:44:18,630 --> 00:44:17,119
so yeah i know i mean

1259
00:44:21,349 --> 00:44:18,640
you're right because there are other

1260
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:21,359
there's times that i have used sources

1261
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:23,040
that are anonymous you know even in

1262
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:24,800
those instances because i know i

1263
00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:26,000
understand why people would question

1264
00:44:28,870 --> 00:44:26,480
that

1265
00:44:29,510 --> 00:44:28,880
and i completely agree it should be

1266
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:29,520
question

1267
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:30,720
you know those are one of the reasons

1268
00:44:34,550 --> 00:44:32,640
that i try to write for major

1269
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:34,560
publications because

1270
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,319
you know in the editing and review and

1271
00:44:39,670 --> 00:44:38,240
fact finding and legal process

1272
00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:39,680
you know even though they're anonymous

1273
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:41,920
in the article to the average reader

1274
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,680
they're verified to the editor because

1275
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:45,280
it's their publication's name going

1276
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:45,920
behind it

1277
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,839
so they know who they are but once that

1278
00:44:51,589 --> 00:44:49,680
occurs you know if you

1279
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:51,599
if we agree if i say yeah no i'm willing

1280
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:53,200
to um

1281
00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:54,960
you know i won't name who you are yeah

1282
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:57,040
no i'm supreme court case law

1283
00:45:01,030 --> 00:44:59,680
i'm legally bound to do that and so i

1284
00:45:02,309 --> 00:45:01,040
think in this case that you're talking

1285
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,319
about this was a

1286
00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:04,000
leak of some information and how her

1287
00:45:07,510 --> 00:45:05,680
name was put out there so this

1288
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:07,520
this particular person didn't have any

1289
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:09,040
agreement with them but yeah

1290
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,720
when you as a journalist you're you're

1291
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:12,400
actually legally obligated to protect

1292
00:45:16,069 --> 00:45:14,480
somebody's identity if you promise to

1293
00:45:17,910 --> 00:45:16,079
but i think that's why it's important

1294
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:17,920
that if you're going to do that you you

1295
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:19,839
have to couple that with

1296
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,599
physical evidence whether it's documents

1297
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:23,599
you know or other people on the record

1298
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:24,880
that you can't

1299
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:27,440
uh i would never try to make anybody

1300
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:28,160
believe

1301
00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,280
something based solely on an unnamed

1302
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:33,359
person because it's just too hard you

1303
00:45:37,430 --> 00:45:34,560
know you can't do that

1304
00:45:39,030 --> 00:45:37,440
well some of these people tim uh in the

1305
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:39,040
military who have been witness to a lot

1306
00:45:42,589 --> 00:45:39,599
of these

1307
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:42,599
events we saw recently on an episode of

1308
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:45,040
unidentified on the history channel

1309
00:45:48,390 --> 00:45:47,440
and a couple of them were anonymous most

1310
00:45:50,870 --> 00:45:48,400
of them

1311
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,880
came forward but uh someone else was

1312
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:52,640
featured in that episode and i have to

1313
00:45:55,589 --> 00:45:53,680
ask him in

1314
00:45:58,069 --> 00:45:55,599
unidentified you were on the most recent

1315
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:58,079
episode as of when this episode's airing

1316
00:46:01,670 --> 00:46:00,000
of the podcast so yeah how was that

1317
00:46:02,710 --> 00:46:01,680
whole experience working with to the

1318
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:02,720
stars and

1319
00:46:07,030 --> 00:46:05,040
uh the history channel and would you

1320
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:07,040
take away from that whole experience

1321
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:10,800
yeah no no that was uh and um i believe

1322
00:46:15,510 --> 00:46:13,200
i will be yeah whenever this is airing

1323
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:15,520
so actually probably the next episode

1324
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:17,200
whenever this airs so yeah this next

1325
00:46:20,470 --> 00:46:19,200
week so um

1326
00:46:22,790 --> 00:46:20,480
i'm supposed to be in that one a lot

1327
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:22,800
more oh okay so you're not a one-trick

1328
00:46:25,109 --> 00:46:23,680
pony

1329
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:25,119
no and it should get everybody really

1330
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:26,640
excited because i think i play the part

1331
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:27,599
of the skeptic

1332
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:30,960
um but um i will say man it was a great

1333
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:31,680
experience

1334
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:34,400
and for a lot of reasons it gives you an

1335
00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:34,800
idea

1336
00:46:38,230 --> 00:46:36,480
and i know you you've been on television

1337
00:46:40,230 --> 00:46:38,240
shows and you've been in productions and

1338
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:40,240
so you realize behind the scenes

1339
00:46:43,910 --> 00:46:42,240
you get a better understanding is that a

1340
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:43,920
lot of the assumptions people make

1341
00:46:47,109 --> 00:46:46,000
are just incorrect you know this idea

1342
00:46:50,550 --> 00:46:47,119
that this is a

1343
00:46:52,069 --> 00:46:50,560
i'll say up front this is a quote to the

1344
00:46:52,870 --> 00:46:52,079
stars academy production that's

1345
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:52,880
incorrect

1346
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:56,000
i mean this is um this is a

1347
00:46:59,990 --> 00:46:57,920
uh this is an a e history channel

1348
00:47:01,349 --> 00:47:00,000
production and production control is

1349
00:47:03,270 --> 00:47:01,359
by the show runner and everything

1350
00:47:05,030 --> 00:47:03,280
obviously you have christopher mellon

1351
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:05,040
you have louis lozando and that you have

1352
00:47:08,390 --> 00:47:05,680
tom belong

1353
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:08,400
so you have the the tudor scars academy

1354
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:09,440
cast

1355
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:11,359
but the idea that this is a to the stars

1356
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:12,480
academy

1357
00:47:18,150 --> 00:47:15,760
program i mean it is is not correct

1358
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:18,160
um and so because i get that a lot you

1359
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:19,680
know i knew that was coming you know

1360
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:20,880
you're a ttcsa

1361
00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:22,720
shield well no if i'm anything i'm an a

1362
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:24,720
e show um

1363
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:28,240
but not ddsa but one of the things

1364
00:47:31,910 --> 00:47:30,400
that i was very very impressed with is

1365
00:47:32,710 --> 00:47:31,920
uh i was very very impressed with

1366
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:32,720
anthony lapp

1367
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:35,200
the show runner so the guy who's running

1368
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,240
the whole shebang

1369
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,400
um he was our guest last week actually

1370
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:40,000
tim oh was he yeah

1371
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:42,640
yeah that's that's that's awesome i i i

1372
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,040
had a blast you know we filmed in london

1373
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:47,760
and so i spent three days in london

1374
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,559
hanging out

1375
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:50,480
uh you know it's kind of it's you know

1376
00:47:53,910 --> 00:47:52,000
you've been on tv we

1377
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,920
filmed for eight hours and you know i'll

1378
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:55,280
probably get a collective of

1379
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:59,119
five minutes right but it was a great

1380
00:48:02,790 --> 00:48:00,800
conversation and then after that getting

1381
00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:02,800
to hang out me and anthony hung out

1382
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,880
a lot you know went out to dinner those

1383
00:48:10,150 --> 00:48:06,720
nights hung out chatted a lot

1384
00:48:11,349 --> 00:48:10,160
and i'll just say that he's a really

1385
00:48:14,150 --> 00:48:11,359
solid guy and

1386
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:14,160
he is uh if you look into anthony's

1387
00:48:17,349 --> 00:48:15,040
background i mean

1388
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:17,359
it's he's legitimate investigative

1389
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:19,200
documentaries and everything

1390
00:48:22,630 --> 00:48:22,000
this is not any by no means would i

1391
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:22,640
classify

1392
00:48:26,390 --> 00:48:25,280
anthony as a ufo nut or a believer and

1393
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:26,400
you know that was one thing i was really

1394
00:48:30,390 --> 00:48:27,920
impressed with he's very skeptical

1395
00:48:31,589 --> 00:48:30,400
of all this you know even being around

1396
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,599
these people

1397
00:48:35,670 --> 00:48:33,839
he doesn't disbelieve them he's

1398
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:35,680
skeptical of it which is good

1399
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,440
because if i think if you're going to do

1400
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:39,359
a show if you're going to do anything

1401
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:42,000
um that's the type of people you would

1402
00:48:45,109 --> 00:48:42,960
want those

1403
00:48:47,109 --> 00:48:45,119
open-minded skeptics who are going to

1404
00:48:47,990 --> 00:48:47,119
take it seriously and so for me i was

1405
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:48,000
very impressed i thought

1406
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:49,680
that uh the way that they went about

1407
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:51,440
things you know

1408
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:54,720
the entire time during post-production

1409
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,520
you know

1410
00:48:59,910 --> 00:48:58,000
i was in contact uh anthony or his

1411
00:49:02,630 --> 00:48:59,920
associate producers would

1412
00:49:03,829 --> 00:49:02,640
frequently reach out to me just asking

1413
00:49:06,150 --> 00:49:03,839
fact checking stuff

1414
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:06,160
they put a lot of effort in to try to

1415
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,200
make sure

1416
00:49:10,470 --> 00:49:09,599
that they got things accurate and so you

1417
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:10,480
know

1418
00:49:14,309 --> 00:49:12,720
it's always going to be tv it's always

1419
00:49:16,950 --> 00:49:14,319
going to be entertaining

1420
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:16,960
you know i mean it's just the way it is

1421
00:49:19,349 --> 00:49:18,960
but uh i i was very very impressed with

1422
00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:19,359
that

1423
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:22,480
it's a lot of fun and um

1424
00:49:25,750 --> 00:49:24,319
believe it or not yeah i haven't even

1425
00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:25,760
watched any of the episodes this season

1426
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:28,000
but it has nothing to do with

1427
00:49:30,470 --> 00:49:29,280
not thinking the show is great and

1428
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:30,480
everything it's because i have to

1429
00:49:33,030 --> 00:49:31,680
because i'm out of germany i have to

1430
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:33,040
hook up the vp and they haven't

1431
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:36,000
it's not in your market yet so i have to

1432
00:49:40,710 --> 00:49:37,280
hook up the vpn

1433
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:40,720
and you know or steal it offline um

1434
00:49:44,630 --> 00:49:42,960
but yeah we should much success because

1435
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:44,640
i think that um

1436
00:49:47,750 --> 00:49:46,400
i'll be interested i i definitely i take

1437
00:49:48,549 --> 00:49:47,760
it back i have seen the first two

1438
00:49:51,829 --> 00:49:48,559
episodes

1439
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:51,839
i saw them through the screeners but uh

1440
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:54,480
you know i i think it would impress a

1441
00:49:58,150 --> 00:49:56,720
lot of people to realize that nobody's

1442
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:58,160
when i filmed with them we sat down and

1443
00:50:02,710 --> 00:50:00,079
checked chatted just like we are now

1444
00:50:04,790 --> 00:50:02,720
right nobody told me what to say nobody

1445
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:04,800
led me down any mess i mean

1446
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:06,640
in that regard it's as it's as

1447
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:08,240
legitimate as can be

1448
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:10,720
for a tv production it's saying a lot i

1449
00:50:13,430 --> 00:50:11,599
mean i

1450
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:13,440
you know i i'm glad to hear that because

1451
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:15,440
there are things i've been involved with

1452
00:50:19,430 --> 00:50:17,280
i won't name them but uh

1453
00:50:20,870 --> 00:50:19,440
when you do these things you have to

1454
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:20,880
bite and scratch

1455
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:23,680
and just you know do everything you can

1456
00:50:31,109 --> 00:50:24,480
to

1457
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:31,119
change something you say entirely with

1458
00:50:36,710 --> 00:50:33,280
you know the cut of a word here or there

1459
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:36,720
so um it's tough it's a tough uh

1460
00:50:41,109 --> 00:50:39,760
industry and um if they have a

1461
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:41,119
preconceived uh

1462
00:50:44,549 --> 00:50:43,839
narrative or or idea of what they want

1463
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:44,559
they will

1464
00:50:48,710 --> 00:50:47,119
find a way to do it so you know it's

1465
00:50:50,230 --> 00:50:48,720
good to hear that they kind of just let

1466
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:50,240
you do your thing and that's why you

1467
00:50:52,870 --> 00:50:51,119
were there

1468
00:50:54,150 --> 00:50:52,880
to give the facts and to give your

1469
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:54,160
opinions as an educated

1470
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:56,960
person on this topic so it's it's very

1471
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:58,400
refreshing to hear that they are

1472
00:51:01,829 --> 00:50:59,839
continuing that uh

1473
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,839
even up until hopefully the rest of the

1474
00:51:05,829 --> 00:51:03,119
season um

1475
00:51:06,950 --> 00:51:05,839
but yeah tim i guess to sort of wrap

1476
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:06,960
things up i've got one

1477
00:51:10,630 --> 00:51:09,920
final closing question for you and um we

1478
00:51:13,750 --> 00:51:10,640
have a lot of

1479
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:13,760
younger listeners uh of this show

1480
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:15,440
people just starting to get their feet

1481
00:51:19,109 --> 00:51:16,800
wet in this topic

1482
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:19,119
they reach out to me constantly like

1483
00:51:23,349 --> 00:51:20,400
asking where to turn

1484
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:23,359
what to do like how do i get involved

1485
00:51:27,990 --> 00:51:23,920
with

1486
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:28,000
ufos and studying researching it so

1487
00:51:31,430 --> 00:51:29,520
what advice would you give to these

1488
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:31,440
people who are just starting

1489
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:33,680
to get into this topic with so much

1490
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:34,640
baggage

1491
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:37,760
so many uh different belief systems and

1492
00:51:41,109 --> 00:51:39,760
disinformation oh god the list goes on

1493
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:41,119
and on where should they

1494
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,280
turn for credible information when it

1495
00:51:46,230 --> 00:51:44,880
comes to ufos

1496
00:51:48,630 --> 00:51:46,240
isn't that cool i just got my first

1497
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:48,640
email like that yeah it never gets a

1498
00:51:52,230 --> 00:51:49,280
month ago

1499
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:52,240
it's amazing yeah yeah now it was from a

1500
00:51:56,309 --> 00:51:53,760
fifth grader who was doing a report

1501
00:51:57,349 --> 00:51:56,319
and they asked me yeah i thought it was

1502
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:57,359
cool um

1503
00:52:00,390 --> 00:51:59,839
awesome actually got him some quotes

1504
00:52:02,710 --> 00:52:00,400
from uh

1505
00:52:03,589 --> 00:52:02,720
louis lozando and some people for their

1506
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:03,599
for their report

1507
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:05,520
yeah i said you know what hang on man oh

1508
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:06,720
my god

1509
00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:08,400
what i would give to have been that

1510
00:52:13,750 --> 00:52:11,200
fifth grader's friend back in the day

1511
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:13,760
yeah that was cool you know yeah that

1512
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:14,319
was

1513
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,640
so i'll i'll give you

1514
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:20,400
lou elizondo's answer to this young man

1515
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:22,000
because it was mine

1516
00:52:27,270 --> 00:52:25,280
identical and that was i think the

1517
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:27,280
first and foremost thing i would

1518
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:29,359
encourage anybody especially

1519
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:31,200
a young person who was interested in

1520
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:33,920
investigating or researching the topic

1521
00:52:39,349 --> 00:52:36,800
would be to before you start

1522
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:39,359
investigating researching ufos

1523
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:41,119
get some books and literature on

1524
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:43,119
investigation period

1525
00:52:49,270 --> 00:52:46,720
so you know how to process synthesize

1526
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:49,280
and gather information and make

1527
00:52:52,549 --> 00:52:51,040
determinations for yourself

1528
00:52:54,309 --> 00:52:52,559
because the basis you know he said i

1529
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:54,319
apply the same rules that i used

1530
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:55,839
investigating homicides that i do to

1531
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:56,480
ufos

1532
00:53:02,309 --> 00:52:59,599
same principles so they're universal and

1533
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:02,319
that will help you in when you start

1534
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,200
going through

1535
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:05,200
the ufo literature and all these

1536
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:06,480
different things kind of

1537
00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:09,520
cut through what is good

1538
00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:11,599
uh what is evidence what follows the

1539
00:53:16,230 --> 00:53:12,800
rules of evidence

1540
00:53:19,670 --> 00:53:16,240
and follow those paths for my part

1541
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:19,680
what's helped me and kind of what i do

1542
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:22,319
you know it's not come from reading ufo

1543
00:53:24,710 --> 00:53:23,839
books except for the latest book that

1544
00:53:26,230 --> 00:53:24,720
was released

1545
00:53:29,589 --> 00:53:26,240
just recently by ryan sprague i better

1546
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:29,599
go check it out

1547
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:31,599
i realize i'm leading into this not not

1548
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:33,119
encouraging ufo books i'm like wait a

1549
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:34,319
second ryan just kidding

1550
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:36,880
um because they're great but getting

1551
00:53:40,549 --> 00:53:38,000
some basis

1552
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:40,559
before they're probably one of the best

1553
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:42,240
some of the best books i've read to help

1554
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,160
me navigate the government's current

1555
00:53:49,109 --> 00:53:47,280
ufo involvement comes from books on

1556
00:53:50,950 --> 00:53:49,119
bureaucracy and policy

1557
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:50,960
that have nothing to do with folks but

1558
00:53:54,230 --> 00:53:52,160
understanding the framework

1559
00:53:55,510 --> 00:53:54,240
yeah yeah you you have you have to

1560
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,520
understand what you're working with

1561
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:57,280
if you're talking about government you

1562
00:54:00,870 --> 00:53:59,680
know cover-up programs conspiracy will

1563
00:54:03,190 --> 00:54:00,880
understand government

1564
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:03,200
understand how policy works and you

1565
00:54:06,390 --> 00:54:04,160
realize

1566
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:06,400
that's how you can attack it that's how

1567
00:54:09,750 --> 00:54:08,240
i can that's how i've been successful in

1568
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,760
getting a hold of people whether they're

1569
00:54:12,390 --> 00:54:11,200
in government or just got out is

1570
00:54:13,829 --> 00:54:12,400
understanding their mind

1571
00:54:15,990 --> 00:54:13,839
and understand the world that they work

1572
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:16,000
in and so yeah i mean having if you if

1573
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:16,720
you want to

1574
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:19,680
really make an impact in the field i

1575
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,400
think

1576
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:23,040
get some get some get some literature

1577
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:24,079
and some

1578
00:54:28,309 --> 00:54:26,559
some learning behind you in

1579
00:54:29,910 --> 00:54:28,319
investigations and the fields that

1580
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:29,920
you're going to be looking into so both

1581
00:54:33,670 --> 00:54:32,880
the sciences and everything and then

1582
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:33,680
after that

1583
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:36,400
it's hard i think that people will kind

1584
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:38,079
of figure out for themselves what are

1585
00:54:41,829 --> 00:54:38,559
the

1586
00:54:43,589 --> 00:54:41,839
shows

1587
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,599
that can give you good information and

1588
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:45,440
what won't because you'll know

1589
00:54:51,109 --> 00:54:48,720
what is good information and

1590
00:54:51,990 --> 00:54:51,119
so i don't have like a one book or one

1591
00:54:53,829 --> 00:54:52,000
show or one

1592
00:54:55,750 --> 00:54:53,839
whatever but that would be my biggest

1593
00:54:59,349 --> 00:54:55,760
advice to people

1594
00:55:02,470 --> 00:54:59,359
is um do that and then don't be afraid

1595
00:55:05,589 --> 00:55:02,480
to look at some of the historical

1596
00:55:08,150 --> 00:55:05,599
literature that's out there look at uh

1597
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:08,160
you know the stuff that's been going

1598
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:10,000
back to the 60s and 70s and

1599
00:55:13,510 --> 00:55:12,319
you start to see the patterns don't

1600
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:13,520
think that this is something that just

1601
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,599
started today because quite frankly that

1602
00:55:20,150 --> 00:55:17,040
is what makes it a compelling

1603
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:20,160
interesting topic it's not new

1604
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:22,960
though it may feel that way and so you

1605
00:55:26,630 --> 00:55:24,720
know my philosophy with all of it as

1606
00:55:27,910 --> 00:55:26,640
well as don't set your goal at thinking

1607
00:55:31,589 --> 00:55:27,920
you're going to solve

1608
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,599
what are ufos i think that will lead

1609
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:33,359
you down a path where you're going to a

1610
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:35,040
get frustrated or b start

1611
00:55:40,069 --> 00:55:38,240
to be influenced or add in bad

1612
00:55:41,589 --> 00:55:40,079
information just to make things fit

1613
00:55:44,069 --> 00:55:41,599
because nobody likes mystery

1614
00:55:45,190 --> 00:55:44,079
you know the unknown is very hard on our

1615
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,200
psychology

1616
00:55:48,549 --> 00:55:47,680
and so don't set your goal that you're

1617
00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:48,559
going to solve it

1618
00:55:55,990 --> 00:55:52,160
enjoy the process of trying to solve it

1619
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:56,000
and um you know if we never figure out

1620
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:58,720
what ufos are but we figure out how to

1621
00:56:01,510 --> 00:55:59,839
travel like them

1622
00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:01,520
that's pretty freaking cool i mean i

1623
00:56:05,430 --> 00:56:03,520
think you know

1624
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:05,440
if i had to say anything i think that's

1625
00:56:09,990 --> 00:56:06,720
what makes me

1626
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,000
if i had a one i want to believe

1627
00:56:14,710 --> 00:56:13,200
mentality it's i want to believe

1628
00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:14,720
that there's something else that is

1629
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:16,720
traversing the cosmos and visiting us

1630
00:56:19,670 --> 00:56:17,440
because if

1631
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:19,680
something else can do it then so can we

1632
00:56:21,670 --> 00:56:21,119
and i think that'd be pretty freaking

1633
00:56:23,589 --> 00:56:21,680
cool

1634
00:56:24,630 --> 00:56:23,599
i'd like to do that who cares if you

1635
00:56:25,910 --> 00:56:24,640
figure out where the aliens are i'd

1636
00:56:28,710 --> 00:56:25,920
rather be the aliens

1637
00:56:30,069 --> 00:56:28,720
huh so you know let's go visit let's go

1638
00:56:33,109 --> 00:56:30,079
visit them um

1639
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:33,119
so yeah i think um i said i wish i had a

1640
00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:34,480
good concise answer

1641
00:56:38,069 --> 00:56:36,799
um i guess i need to write a book huh

1642
00:56:40,789 --> 00:56:38,079
yeah that way i can say well

1643
00:56:41,109 --> 00:56:40,799
honestly i can plug my own book yeah you

1644
00:56:46,630 --> 00:56:41,119
need

1645
00:56:47,670 --> 00:56:46,640
i think that's a perfect way to sort of

1646
00:56:49,829 --> 00:56:47,680
wrap this up is

1647
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,839
it is it's an aspiration like we

1648
00:56:53,589 --> 00:56:51,839
mentioned earlier it's a want

1649
00:56:55,430 --> 00:56:53,599
to believe that we are capable of the

1650
00:56:58,230 --> 00:56:55,440
things that we are seeing

1651
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:58,240
and that defy everything we once thought

1652
00:57:01,510 --> 00:56:59,359
we knew and

1653
00:57:03,670 --> 00:57:01,520
that's exciting to think that you know

1654
00:57:05,109 --> 00:57:03,680
as humans there will always be growth

1655
00:57:07,109 --> 00:57:05,119
and potential for

1656
00:57:09,109 --> 00:57:07,119
something better hopefully something

1657
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:09,119
better uh but no i

1658
00:57:12,150 --> 00:57:11,440
i love it that's what history shows us

1659
00:57:15,270 --> 00:57:12,160
you know

1660
00:57:18,470 --> 00:57:15,280
don't be as long as you stay in those

1661
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:18,480
good kind of um you know grounded

1662
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:19,440
domains

1663
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:22,000
um don't ever be ashamed about looking

1664
00:57:24,630 --> 00:57:22,880
at that i mean that's

1665
00:57:26,069 --> 00:57:24,640
you know the paranormal is just stuff

1666
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:26,079
that's not normal now

1667
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:30,000
yeah yes 2000 years you know or 3 000 4

1668
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:31,280
000 5000 years ago

1669
00:57:35,510 --> 00:57:33,599
you know some kind of deity carried the

1670
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:35,520
sun up every day and and carried it down

1671
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:36,880
every night yeah that's

1672
00:57:44,230 --> 00:57:40,880
paranormal so oftentimes we attribute

1673
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:44,240
paranormal aspects to what is inherently

1674
00:57:48,470 --> 00:57:45,359
natural phenomena but

1675
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:48,480
still awe-inspiring um and lead to

1676
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:50,799
this whole existence and so there's

1677
00:57:53,990 --> 00:57:52,160
nothing wrong with you

1678
00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:54,000
that there's nothing wrong with looking

1679
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:55,599
at things like that in fact that's how

1680
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:57,200
innovation that's how

1681
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:58,799
like you just said that's how humanity

1682
00:58:01,750 --> 00:58:01,040
goes forward well tim in terms of

1683
00:58:04,549 --> 00:58:01,760
looking

1684
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:04,559
gotta ask finally where can we find

1685
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:06,000
everything you're up to

1686
00:58:09,430 --> 00:58:07,920
is there anything you can share that

1687
00:58:11,030 --> 00:58:09,440
you're working on i know

1688
00:58:12,870 --> 00:58:11,040
that's usually a tough question to

1689
00:58:15,349 --> 00:58:12,880
answer when it comes to what you cover

1690
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:15,359
but uh yeah man what where can we find

1691
00:58:19,510 --> 00:58:16,240
everything

1692
00:58:19,910 --> 00:58:19,520
that you're up to yeah um you will i you

1693
00:58:23,910 --> 00:58:19,920
know

1694
00:58:26,549 --> 00:58:23,920
i shouldn't be but i

1695
00:58:27,670 --> 00:58:26,559
am you can find me on twitter at lt tim

1696
00:58:31,349 --> 00:58:27,680
mcmillan

1697
00:58:35,190 --> 00:58:31,359
uh i have a website too um

1698
00:58:37,030 --> 00:58:35,200
which is also lt tim mcmillan.com

1699
00:58:38,950 --> 00:58:37,040
so any one of those places you know my

1700
00:58:39,990 --> 00:58:38,960
my emails available on any of those i

1701
00:58:42,390 --> 00:58:40,000
try very hard

1702
00:58:43,510 --> 00:58:42,400
um go out of my way to answer anybody's

1703
00:58:46,150 --> 00:58:43,520
questions or anything

1704
00:58:47,270 --> 00:58:46,160
that they have i learn lots from people

1705
00:58:49,750 --> 00:58:47,280
who reach out to me

1706
00:58:51,030 --> 00:58:49,760
um and new insights so yeah if anybody's

1707
00:58:53,030 --> 00:58:51,040
got any questions or anything

1708
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:53,040
feel free to reach out i'll try if i

1709
00:58:56,789 --> 00:58:54,240
don't answer

1710
00:58:57,430 --> 00:58:56,799
in a quick manner it's it's not personal

1711
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:57,440
i promise

1712
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,280
you're three little kids who always seem

1713
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:01,440
to be both yes

1714
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:03,599
not to mention yeah you're 12 hours

1715
00:59:08,549 --> 00:59:06,240
ahead of some of us so that's hard too

1716
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:08,559
yeah yeah that's true yep but we're uh

1717
00:59:10,950 --> 00:59:09,920
half a world away from each other right

1718
00:59:12,470 --> 00:59:10,960
now so you're right

1719
00:59:14,789 --> 00:59:12,480
i'm in germany so a lot of times

1720
00:59:15,829 --> 00:59:14,799
messages come in different time zones

1721
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:15,839
but uh

1722
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:19,119
find me there and and um i

1723
00:59:22,789 --> 00:59:20,960
have a lot of different things in the

1724
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:22,799
works um

1725
00:59:25,829 --> 00:59:24,480
i can't i wish i could tell you exactly

1726
00:59:27,030 --> 00:59:25,839
when stuff's coming out i know people

1727
00:59:28,470 --> 00:59:27,040
want that but that's

1728
00:59:29,750 --> 00:59:28,480
my biggest thing is just like i said

1729
00:59:30,230 --> 00:59:29,760
just like with that popular mechanics

1730
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:30,240
article

1731
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:32,160
it to me it's not about putting out more

1732
00:59:36,150 --> 00:59:34,079
it's about putting out good and so i try

1733
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:36,160
to just put out stuff that

1734
00:59:39,990 --> 00:59:39,119
contributes to the body of knowledge on

1735
00:59:42,630 --> 00:59:40,000
this topic and

1736
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:42,640
and helps peop other people jump forward

1737
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:44,240
or whatever and so

1738
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:46,480
uh yeah hopefully in the next i mean i i

1739
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:47,280
usually kind of

1740
00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,960
line it up in the same cycle so if you

1741
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:50,400
pay attention to what i did last year

1742
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:51,119
where

1743
00:59:57,030 --> 00:59:54,960
something came out in november december

1744
00:59:58,789 --> 00:59:57,040
something big in january you know

1745
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:58,799
something else

1746
01:00:02,069 --> 01:00:00,559
right after that or february as you say

1747
01:00:03,750 --> 01:00:02,079
the valentine's day massacre

1748
01:00:05,670 --> 01:00:03,760
um in january so usually they're

1749
01:00:06,870 --> 01:00:05,680
staggered like that so the fall kind of

1750
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:06,880
december sweeps

1751
01:00:11,030 --> 01:00:09,520
uh hopefully we'll have some some more

1752
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:11,040
stuff coming out but yeah

1753
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:13,520
there's i'm as eager as anybody else to

1754
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:14,319
get it out there

1755
01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:17,839
but for me it's just making sure that um

1756
01:00:21,589 --> 01:00:19,680
you know even the hardened skeptic can

1757
01:00:24,309 --> 01:00:21,599
come out okay well this is

1758
01:00:24,950 --> 01:00:24,319
yeah okay yeah i got this yeah you're

1759
01:00:27,349 --> 01:00:24,960
right

1760
01:00:28,150 --> 01:00:27,359
i can't dispute this i can say it will

1761
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:28,160
not involve

1762
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:31,520
crash ufos at least not now i don't

1763
01:00:34,789 --> 01:00:33,119
don't have anything on that in the works

1764
01:00:36,870 --> 01:00:34,799
so please don't

1765
01:00:39,430 --> 01:00:36,880
please nobody get excited yeah you heard

1766
01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:39,440
it here first guys

1767
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:41,440
don't have that but if anybody's got

1768
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:43,280
conclusive evidence of that by all means

1769
01:00:47,270 --> 01:00:45,359
though i will gladly bring that forward

1770
01:00:49,109 --> 01:00:47,280
yes don't have that order the map to the

1771
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:49,119
element 115.

1772
01:00:52,870 --> 01:00:51,200
element yeah mr lazar if you're

1773
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:52,880
listening yeah if you want to just ship

1774
01:00:58,870 --> 01:00:54,880
it to me i will gladly share it with the

1775
01:01:04,150 --> 01:01:01,510
uh tim dude this has been absolutely

1776
01:01:05,829 --> 01:01:04,160
fascinating we covered so much but uh

1777
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:05,839
you know i just want to tell you thank

1778
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:07,599
you for what you're doing for this topic

1779
01:01:11,349 --> 01:01:08,880
i think it's given it

1780
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:11,359
that extra level of legitimacy we've

1781
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:12,480
been waiting for

1782
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:15,200
for over 70 years i i look forward to

1783
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:16,000
seeing

1784
01:01:20,950 --> 01:01:19,200
you on unidentified and whatever comes

1785
01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:20,960
next man so again

1786
01:01:24,069 --> 01:01:22,480
thank you for joining me today on

1787
01:01:27,829 --> 01:01:24,079
somewhere in the skies thanks for having

1788
01:01:33,109 --> 01:01:30,069
that's it for part two of our series of

1789
01:01:34,789 --> 01:01:33,119
ufos in 2020 with tim mcmillan

1790
01:01:37,270 --> 01:01:34,799
i hope you enjoyed the conversation as

1791
01:01:39,030 --> 01:01:37,280
much as i did and i hope you'll consider

1792
01:01:41,109 --> 01:01:39,040
rating and reviewing somewhere in the

1793
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:41,119
skies on apple podcasts

1794
01:01:44,710 --> 01:01:43,760
spotify your android apps or wherever

1795
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:44,720
you get the show

1796
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:47,040
every rating and review helps us gain

1797
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:48,000
visibility and

1798
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:50,160
find new listeners so head over to apple

1799
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:52,319
podcast spotify or wherever

1800
01:01:57,910 --> 01:01:55,440
and rate in review right now thank you

1801
01:01:58,470 --> 01:01:57,920
in advance you can follow the show on

1802
01:02:01,069 --> 01:01:58,480
twitter

1803
01:02:02,549 --> 01:02:01,079
at summerskies and instagram at

1804
01:02:04,309 --> 01:02:02,559
summerskyspot

1805
01:02:05,670 --> 01:02:04,319
check out the ryan spreck youtube

1806
01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:05,680
channel for all

1807
01:02:10,150 --> 01:02:08,480
of my videos whether it's case files

1808
01:02:13,190 --> 01:02:10,160
past and present interviews

1809
01:02:14,870 --> 01:02:13,200
and all audio episodes as well and

1810
01:02:15,750 --> 01:02:14,880
please also be sure to check out the new

1811
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:15,760
website

1812
01:02:19,029 --> 01:02:17,760
and contact me personally with your own

1813
01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:19,039
ufo stories

1814
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:22,000
all at summer in the skies dot com i'll

1815
01:02:25,029 --> 01:02:23,200
see you here next week

1816
01:02:27,430 --> 01:02:25,039
and remember keep your feet on the

1817
01:02:36,690 --> 01:02:27,440
ground but never stop searching

1818
01:02:36,700 --> 01:02:46,829
[Music]

1819
01:02:46,839 --> 01:02:49,850
so

1820
01:03:14,150 --> 01:03:12,230
[Music]

1821
01:03:15,430 --> 01:03:14,160
somewhere in the skies is produced by

1822
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:15,440
third kind productions